Safer Sax Shopping Online: A How-To Guide

eBay horns	The truth about dents	Terms used by online sellers	Cautions about overhauls	More questions for sellers
Tips on repairs shops	Original finishes	Why were horns refinished	Why original is preferred today	How to spot a relac
Mark VI tenors in colour lacquers	Relacs can be OK	Safer sax shopping online – tips	Links to online ID/Credit Safety Sources	Page 1

The straight facts about eBay horns

• eBay is full of fake and counterfeit listings these days, and seems powerless, or unwilling, to stop it. Reporting fakes and stolen horns to the company as a private individual results in nothing. The ads remain. Quite frankly, I wouldn’t buy a thing on eBay these days due to possibly getting burned—unless I am buying from an actual brick and mortar store. (And then I’d then I’d likely try to buy from them directly rather than through eBay, since the prices are often less than through the auction site.)
• If you are not an experienced vintage horn buyer—or even if you are—buying on eBay is a very bad idea unless you have $$ to burn.
• Very few good deals can be found on the site these days.
• And while yes, you might luck out and find one, the reality is much greater that that cheap horn you bought on the site will need hundreds of $$ of work to become playable—if it ever does without a full overhaul by a tech who knows how to deal with the idiosyncrasies of vintage saxophones.
• Some vintage saxes are simply irreparable, and that can’t be determined until you have already paid for and received them.
• Don’t be fooled sellers’ phrases like: no dents; professionally serviced; or original lacquer. They are not necessarily as described.

Condition

• Horns on eBay are very seldom as described.
• Saxophones on the sites are misrepresented or misidentified all the time.
• Not all damage is visible in photos—even if photographed. EG: Bent body tubes.
• Parts may have been replaced with mismatched/improperly fitting ones.

Deciphering eBay jargon

• Ready to play = makes a sound.
• Plays great out of the box = makes a sound.
• Plays well = keys move.
• TONE = makes a sound.
• I know nothing about saxophones = I take no responsibility for what I’m selling.
• Recently professionally serviced = spent a few bucks on it, now I want to make that back.
• There are no dents = seller is clueless, not being truthful, or the instrument is a closet horn.

The truth about dents

• Any saxophone that has been used for years is likely to have some kind of either dent, ping, ding, or have had them repaired in the past.
• In 2008, the late Sarge Stransky from WWS, gave me an explanation of what dents did to saxophone acoustics. He explained it more or less like this:

Any damage or irregularity to the internal surface of the horn’s neck or bore is going effect the way the sound wave behaves while it travels through it. These irregularities cause a swirling of the air, and depending on where these dents, pings, or dents are, can effect intonation, tone, and response of a horn.

 

Generally speaking, the further away from the source of the tone, the less noticeable the effects. However, if the irregularities are in the neck; close to a tone hole; or are larger than the size of a pencil tip, then the effects on the instrument can be greater.

• On his former website Just Saxes, Paulo had a page that discussed just this topic. Although long gone, I had a copy of the page that I had saved as a PDF. Here is what he wrote back in the early 2000s:

…[Conn’s] designs weren’t perfect, nor could early manufacturing techniques manufacture saxophones with the degree of identicalness that can be achieved today—this is of course part of the charm of vintage horns for quite a few players who thrive on discovering the personal character of an individual horn, with an individual character that comes from being hand hammered, hand-made. That degree of variation is one of the reasons it’s impossible to predict what kind of flaws will really cripple a horn, and what kinds may actually be ironically beneficial.

 

I’ve come across certain saxophones, for example, that actually tuned or sounded better with a given mouthpiece when the necks had a bit of pulldown syndrome, or a dent… I have on occasion seen horns that played considerably better with mild pulldown syndrome than when the pulldown had been corrected.

 

The only way to know whether a horn’s dents, or other body metal-related injuries, exercise effects that render a horn unbuyable is to actually play it, and go from the intuition one gets from a playtest—of course that’s impossible with an eBay sale.

What frequently used online terms REALLY mean

Term Used	What It Means
Recently Overhauled	Meaningless
Recently Repadded	Meaningless
Professionally Overhauled	Meaningless
Professionally Repadded	Meaningless
Professionally Serviced	Meaningless

Unless there is a well-known, well-respected tech’s name listed behind said line, the line by itself is meaningless.

For example:

Recently overhauled by Matt Stohrer.

• I would still ask: How recent?

Uberhaul done at Music Medic in 20XX

• How much use on the horn since?

Bought fully overhauled from Get A Sax—or other reputable vintage dealer—in 20xx.

• I would ask: How much use did the horn see with you?
• Also: What condition are the pads in?

Repadded with Roo pads and X resos 20XX. XX hours on repad.

• I would ask: Who did the repad?

Overhauled by my local tech XX years ago. Has been in case ever since.

• Who is/was your local tech?

Overhauled/repadded/fixed in my home shop (or some variation to indicate it was a DIY job)

• No. Just no.

Remember, when you are playing a vintage sax you are not playing it like it came from the factory. Rather, you are playing the work of the last tech who overhauled it.

Thanks to Internetization, the term “overhaul” no longer means what it once did in the world of professional repair techs. Here’s an article I wrote that explores what a real overhaul is, and why so many horns being sold as “overhauled”, are in fact nothing of the sort.

If the tech who did the overhaul did a bad job, or used subpar materials, the horn will never be a great horn—regardless of its potential, or the way it came from the factory. It will need a great deal of work to get it back to what it once was. (If that is even possible.)

DIY’ers buy unrestored horns to learn on and/or to make $$.

There is nothing wrong with doing DIY horn repairs, but if those people go on to try and sell their work as “overhauled” or in some way that generates an income for them: WATCH OUT. This is most likely where you are likely to get burned. You pay more for work that will quite likely have to be redone by an actual professional.

Ask for proof

• If a seller claims $$ were spent on X, Y, & Z. Ask to see receipts.
• Some sellers will include a copy of the receipt in the eBay ad. Others don’t.

New horns are not immune

Of course we all should should be wary of new horn sales as well. Even new horns coming from the factory are often coming poorly set up. Sometimes they require hundreds of $$ of work before they are ready to be played.

Questions to always ask sellers about overhauled/repadded horns—especially if it was a DIY job, or a-non brand name shop or tech.

1. What kind of pads does the horn have?
2. What kind of resos does it have?
3. Are the pads & resos consistent over the entire horn?
4. How were the pads fastened? (Hot glue? Shellac? Tape? Not at all?)
5. Were the pads floated and seated properly?
6. Were the key heights adjusted after the pad job, or were they still OK? Or were they not checked?

Not all repairers and repair shops are equal

• If you have a student horn that needs a repair, most repair shops that rent saxes can do that for you.
• If you have a pro model horn that needs a repair, repad, or an overhaul, you really need to go to the right place.
• Sellers who sell on eBay and other online sites often flip horns. They buy unrestored horns, through a few bucks at them, and then try to sell them for a profit. Don’t fall for it.
• This is why I always, always tell people who are shopping for a vintage, or used pro horn: budget for an overhaul. It might not need one, in which case you’ll be ahead. But if you don’t budget for an overhaul, then you might find yourself with a horn that is unplayable, and with not enough $$ to fix it.

“Original” Lacquer/Finish

Nothing can bring about a more opinionated debate than one about a saxophone’s finish.

• Is it original?
• Is it a relac?
• Has it been replated?
• Is it the original silver/gold plate?
• Has the engraving been recut?
• Was the refinish done at the factory?

Out of my stable of ≅ 30 vintage saxophones, only 2 of them have been refinished. Both of them are relacquers. Both of them happen to be horns I bought online, and I knew both were relacs when I bought them.

Why were horns relacquered in the past?

• In the early days of saxophone manufacturing, it was not uncommon for saxophones to come in bare brass finishes. It was the least expensive finish available from a company.
  • EG: The 1922, Conn New Wonder saxophone catalogue listed this finish as Finish 4.
  • When these horns were lacquered, it is technically not a relac, but a first lacquer, or factory first lacquer if done at the Conn, Buescher, Selmer Paris, etc. factories.
• When horns were overhauled back in the day, they were often sent back to the factory. It was quite common for the factories to apply a new coat of lacquer on these horns during this process. And yes, sometimes the engraving was recut as well.
• In some cases, horns were plated instead of relacquered, or it could have been the other way around. Sometimes this was because a bandleader would want visual continuity of his sax section.
• Relacquering/replating was not seen as detrimental back in the day, since players did it because they were looking to refreshen-up their horn’s look. Authenticity was not a consideration.
• I knew a few old-timey techs who worked out of their own shops, who still did relacquers regularly as recently as the early 2000s.
• FYI, it is still possible to get your horn relacquered or replated. I briefly considered getting my ugly Mark VI relac bari silver plated, but then I decided it was too great a risk in that it might change its much-sought-after tone that my bari teacher from NY loved so much.

What changed? Big hint: eBay & the Internet

• Arguably the biggest change was the exploding vintage saxophone market brought on to a large degree by the Net and eBay.
• Buyers now wanted an authentic original, not something that had been cosmetically altered.
• Potential buyers became more educated about the types of relacquering, and the possible pitfalls associated with the various types.
• Selmers in particular took a hit in value if they were relacquered.

How to spot a relac

This is quite a complicated topic, and worth of its own article at some point. Until then, there are some pointers for you

1. Lacquers tend to age over time. If a horn’s finish looks incorrect for its age, or wrong for the make/model that can be a tell. But be warned, sometimes custom lacquers/finishes were ordered from a factory, so this might not be a fool proof method of determining authenticity.
2. If the engraving is not as crisp as it should be. However, sometimes engraving was recut at the factory when a horn was relacquered/refinished there.
3. Any runs in the lacquer.
4. Lacquer in the engraving and/serial numbers.
5. Fine lines and scratches under the lacquer.
6. Lacquer over-spray on the MOP key touches.
7. Red rouge buffing compound in any of the nooks and crannies of the horn.
8. Lacquer over any naturally occurring wear spots such as roller areas, MOP key touches, etc.
9. Evenness of the tone holes. Are they even? Were any damaged in the buffing process?

A colourful Selmer interlude. Original and relacquered Mark VI tenors in pink and black

Think Selmer Mark VIs only came in gold lacquer or plated? Think again. Selmer experimented with some coloured lacquers for a short time. Besides the original pink and black I show here, there were also blue, and we know of some white ones as well.

I am including this bunch of coloured Mark VIs so you can get a better idea of what original lacquers look like, and how relacquers are often easy to distinguish.

A relac/refinish doesn’t need to be a deal-breaker

As I already mentioned, the Mark VI bari I bought is a relac. I bought it knowing it was not a factory relacquer. The tech I talked to at the shop in Chicago told me I wouldn’t be disappointed in the horn—if I could look past its cosmetics. Interestingly enough, the tone and response of this 1967, Mark VI low Bb bari was such that it was only $1,000 less than its original lacquer cousins they had in stock.

The tech was not wrong. It is without a doubt the ugliest relac I have ever seen, and of the 9 items listed above it checked all but a couple of the boxes.

• The engraving is faint.
• There are lacquer runs.
• There is lacquer in the engraving and serial number.
• There are fine lines under the lacquer.
• There was lacquer over-spray.
• There was red rouge buffing compound in the nooks and crannies. (My tech removed the last of it during its overhaul about 5 years ago.)
• There is lacquer over the wear spots.
• The low Eb tone hole had been so over-buffed it is barely above the body tube.

However,  when paired with my vintage HR Berg MP and the Fibracell reeds I was using at the time, my sax teacher from New York—a very fine, exceptionally well-known bari player—asked:

“What horn/set up are you using?”

I told him.

He said: “NEVER change a thing. You have that quintessential bari sound that everyone is looking for, but so few actually achieve.”

Due to Fibracell’s decline in quality 15+ years ago, I switched to Harry Hartmann’s Fiberreeds, and couldn’t be happier. Same sound, but much higher quality than Fibracell ever had.

Relacquered Selmer Mark VI low Bb baritone #147xxx

This gallery of photos of my Mark VI bari were taken in 2008, a full 12 or more years before its overhaul.

Interested in learning about plating a sax?

As I was researching this article in 2026, I came across this very handy webpage on Music Medic on which Curt describes the history of refinishing saxophones, the process, possible pitfalls, and how Music Medic developed its plating process. He concludes with some of his thoughts re: refinishing.

If you’ve ever considered refinishing a horn you own, you owe it to yourself to read what Curt writes.

Bassic Sax Tips for Safer Sax Shopping Online

1. Buy from a reputable dealer like Get A Sax, PM Woodwind, World Wide Sax, Quinn The Eskimo etc. No, you won’t be paying more in the long run. You won’t run the risk of buying a undisclosed junker from a sketchy seller who sells equally sketchy horns.
2. DO YOUR HOMEWORK ahead of time.
   1. Know the horn(s) you’re interested in. EG: If you want to buy a Selmer Large Bore, know its features, and how to differentiate it from a different model that was made around the same period.
   2. Know the dealer you’re considering buying. EG: What are people saying about dealer X? People satisfied? Trial period? Return policy? etc.
   3. Find out about the seller if they are not a dealer. EG: Who are they. Do they have a selling history somewhere? What are people saying about them?
3. If you are buying a used, or vintage pro horn from a dealer who advertises it as “as is”, or from a private seller, budget for an overhaul. Might not be right away, but might be soon.
4. Don’t use public wifi. It allows others to easily hack into your device.
5. Use a VPN such as Proton, Nord, Surfshark, etc, etc.
6. Use an anti-virus software.**
7. Use a malware program.**
8. Buy only from TRUSTED vendors.
9. Know what the return policy of the seller is.
10. If your buying from a foreign country, recognize you may have very limited options.
11. Keep a hardcopy log book of your passwords, and change them regularly.

**Many premium programs are a combined antivirus and malware program.

In the end though, despite all the questions you might ask, and photos you might ask for, remember, as Forrest Gump so famously put it: “Mama always said life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re gonna get.” Or perhaps another way to look at it is: You pay your money, you take your chances. I have to look no further than my former 10M for proof of that.

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General online/ID/credit safety links

Protecting yourself from identity theft online – Govt of Canada

How to shop online safely – Gov’t of Canada

10 tips for protecting personal information – Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Safe Online Shopping Tips – Equifax

11 Online Safety Tips For Making Purchases on the Internet – Providence Credit Union of CCCU

Online Shopping Safety (and more online safety tips) – Moneysmart.gov.au

Shopping online: What do I need to look out for? – EEC.net

Shopping Online Within the EU – European Commission