| Measurement Chart | Backstory & Meaning of Results | Galleries of Measurements | Key Take Aways | Page 1: D&J Hx & Features | Page 2: D&J vs JK Feature Pic |
Sockets. And tenons. And necks. Oh my!
In the early days of people wanting to know about D&J saxophones, there was a great deal made about the differences between Dörfler & Jörka and Julius Keilwerth necks. At the time, Paulo, from Just Saxes, was one of the few people who had had any experience with the D & J brand, and had gone on to publicly write about them on his old website. Unfortunately a lot of what he wrote, just didn’t hold up to scrutiny. Why? Because a you’ll see below, when it comes to handmade saxophones, there are no absolutes.
About 5 years after I created the first iteration of my Dörfler & Jörka page, I decided to take a deep dive into D&J sockets, necks, and their various openings vis-à-vis Keilwerth models of similar vintage. To pull this off I worked together with a fellow from Austria who like me at the time, owned both a D&J and JK tenor of roughly the same age.
The table below addresses the fundamental question: What are the size differences in the neck and socket openings between a Dörfler & Jörka tenor, and a Keilwerth Toneking or The New King, of the same era?
D&J vs JK: all measurements in mm
The table is a comparison of 8 horns. Two D&J horns are the first ones noted along the top (my De Villiers and a Boucet belonging to a fellow from Austria). The next 2 listed, the Toneking and The New King, are the Julius Keilwerth models that Dörfler & Jörka copied. The last 4 are just a random sampling of vintage horns for comparison. The Klingsor and the Mark VI, happen to be the ones I used a few years ago to illustrate the mouthpipe openings.
|
Dörfler & Jörka |
Julius Keilwerth |
Comparison Horns |
||||||||
|
De Villiers 11XXX |
Boucet 90XX |
Toneking 29XXX |
The New King 32XXX |
JK King Modell 3 57XX |
Klingsor 043XX |
Selmer Mark VI 198XXX |
Hohner President 104XX |
|||
| Socket Size |
28.00 mm |
27.82 mm |
27.71 mm |
27.45 mm |
30.08 mm |
|||||
| Outer Tenon Size |
27.98 mm |
27.95 mm |
27.96 mm |
28.10 mm |
27.76 mm |
27.85 mm |
27.51 mm |
29.80 mm |
||
| Interior Tenon Size |
25.48 mm |
25.65 mm |
25.66 mm |
25.98 mm |
28.09 mm |
|||||
| Mouth Pipe Opening |
11.58 mm |
11.79 mm |
11.42 mm |
11.70 mm |
12.64 mm |
11.54 mm |
12.84 mm |
12.88 mm |
||
How this came about
In 2012 I corresponded with a fellow in Austria who, like myself at the time, owned both a D&J tenor and a JK from the late 1950s. Unlike my 1957 tenor, which is a Toneking, and therefore has a high F# and a G# triller, Paul’s doesn’t have high F# or G# trill keys. His is The New King model tenor, from 1958.
During the course of our email exchange, Paul decided to measure the mouth pipe openings and tenons of his horns. Because I hadn’t measured my horns earlier, the results were not what either of us expected. Although his and my measurements differed to some degree—in part no doubt, depending on exactly where we placed the callipers—one thing is consistent: the necks of the D&J horns have larger tenons, and do not fit into the socket of the JK horns.
Remember, Paulo from Just Saxes, mentioned that:
…in most cases, and the mouthpipe opening (not the tenon) of the neck is extremely small; I’m not talking about “extremely” as a technician’s term, which could be thousandths of an inch, but in terms of the naked eye. The tip opening on most D&J tenor necks is almost soprano-like in diameter.
However, as you can see both from my measurements, and from those by Paul, the research doesn’t bear this out. In fact, the Keilwerth neck has a smaller mouth pipe opening than the D&J does.
Here are some photos so that you can see all of these necks and measurements for yourself.
Dörfler & Jörka-made De Villiers Tenor & Julius Keilwerth-stencilled Jubilee Tenor Necks
The D&J neck is on the top in the first 2 photos. In the third photo, the JK neck is on top. (It is the one with the big, round thumb screw.)
Dörfler & Jörka Neck & Socket Measurements
Julius Keilwerth Toneking Neck & Socket Measurements
Dörfler & Jörka-made Boucet Tenor & Julius Keilwerth The New King Tenor Necks
The Keilwerth neck is on the top in the first 2 photos. In the third photo, it is on the left. (It is the one with the big, round thumb screw.)
Dörfler & Jörka Neck Measurements
Julius Keilwerth The New King Neck Measurements
Key take aways from neck/tonal research
- Whatever Dörfler & Jörka did with the necks and with the bore taper, they did produce a horn that was remarkably similar to the horn that it was a copy of.
- These D&J stencil horns sound nearly identical to the Toneking and The New King models.
- When I played my D&J-made De Villiers and then my JK Toneking with the identical set-up for someone who is very familiar with my sound, she could not tell the difference between the two horns. However, when I played either horn, and then any other of my vintage tenors, she could not only hear a difference immediately, but could also correctly identify which of my other tenors I was playing.
